(no subject)

[geekchick]

pnh has a post up at Making Light in which he endorses Obama, which links in turn to a couple of posts at Obsidian Wings. Since I've heard this from people recently, I wanted to point out Hilzoy's post in particular, addressing the "Obama's all style and no substance" complaints.

I'll vote for Hillary if she ends up being the candidate (because I trust her marginally more than McCain, much less any of the other remaining wingnuts still in the Republican race), but as Patrick says:

I’m for Obama knowing perfectly well that, as Bill Clinton suggested, it’s a “roll of the dice”. A roll of the dice for Democrats, for progressives, for those of us who’ve fought so hard against the right-wing frames that Obama sometimes (sometimes craftily, sometimes naively) deploys. Because I think a Hillary Clinton candidacy will be another game of inches, yielding—at best—another four or eight years of knifework in the dark. Because I think an Obama candidacy might actually shake up the whole gameboard, energize good people, create room and space for real change.

Because he seems to know something extraordinarily important, something so frequently missing from progressive politics in this country, in this time: how to hearten people. Because when I watch him speak, I see fearful people becoming brave.

That’s not enough. But it’s something. It’s a real something. It’s a start.

Comments

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

Saving throw against timidity?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Eh. When I watch Obama, I see a master manipulator administering Kool-Aid to his personality-cult members. A page out of the right-wing playbook, IMO, bolstered by the right-wing frames. I don't want four more years of a left-wing GWB, which is what I think Obama resembles.

Space may be your single issue, but this is mine.

[geekchick]

One of the reasons I can't vote for Hillary in the primary is her "yes" vote on this little thing right here. As I said, I'll vote for her in the general election if it's a choice between her or McCain or (god forbid) someone like Romney, because I trust her marginally more than either of them. Not in the primary though.

Re: Space may be your single issue, but this is mine.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

(nods) to each their own... Iraq was a dumb idea, and I wrote letters to our local newspaper at the time saying so (and got yellow ribbons removed from the freeway overpass), but it is unfortunately already a done deal, screwed up horribly and whomever is President next will need to clean it up. Space is merely in the about-to-be-screwed-up category, at least under Obama.

Re: Space may be your single issue, but this is mine.

[geekchick]

Honestly? I'd prefer not to see cuts (although his proposal includes delaying the project, not killing it outright) at NASA, but if I have to choose between either funding a manned lunar mission or putting that money into improving early childhood education, I'm going to go with the latter.

Re: Space may be your single issue, but this is mine.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

(nods) that's arguably a false dichotomy, particularly compared to the costs of Iraq. I think tomorrow's kids need both something to aspire to and the educational opportunities to get them there. :)

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I don't see how you can say that, Brian. He's definitely to the left of both McCain and Hillary. His charisma shouldn't count against him, and his record should count for him.

I know you're not happy about his views on the space program (for obvious and personal reasons) but there are too many reasons for me not to trust Hillary and too many reasons for me to say Obama is the right man for the job.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

He likes Reagan and uses right-wing frames, and his healthcare plan is clearly to the right of Clinton's. So I'd disagree. But not go on about it any further in someone else's journal.

At this point, I trust Clinton more than Bambi... the devil one knows, perhaps.

[geekchick]

a master manipulator administering Kool-Aid to his personality-cult members

Y'know, I've been thinking about this for a bit, and I have to say that your description of Obama supporters as Kool-Aid-drinking cult members here seriously bothers me. I am impressed by his style, yes, and I have been ever since his keynote at the 2004 Democratic convention. Ultimately though, I'm voting for him in the primary because I don't want to vote for someone who uses applause lines that include in any context the phrase "no legal process" (sound like anyone else we know?), or for someone who sees nothing wrong with garnishing the paychecks of people who don't buy insurance coverage, or who voted to authorize force in Iraq, or who essentially voted in favor of more of the same in Iran. I won't insult you for your candidate selection if you'll stop insulting me for mine.

Are you claiming that Hillary Clinton (or any other politician on the national stage) isn't also manipulative? Because I absolutely do not buy that for a second.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

OK, let's just agree to disagree, then, and recognize that there are apparently aspects of each other's favored candidates that scare us.

And I agree with you, *all* politicians are manipulative to varying degrees.