Let's talk about a subject near and dear to my heart

[geekchick]

Today is Prickle-Prickle, day 68 in the season of Confusion, 3270.

Today's random discussion topic, chosen to take my mind off the fact that it is indeed a Monday and inspired by a conversation with a sweetie last night:

How do you (yes, the specific you)  define "flirting with intent"?  What elements need to be there for a flirtation to fall under the "with intent" banner?  Does flirtation necessarily imply said intent for you, or do you enjoy it for its own sake?  What sorts of things figure into your decision to flirt with someone?

[Before anyone thinks they're clever and decides to read anything into this particular question posed at this time, let me state for the record that this is completely intended as  a theoretical discussion.  =)  I'll post my own answers a bit later.]

Comments

[aroraborealis.livejournal.com]

For me, the difference between flirting for fun and flirting with intent is entirely internal. I certainly can't name any differences in my behavior between one or the other, although perhaps someone who sees me from the outside could. I might be just a tad more outrageous when I'm flirting for fun, since flirting with intent can be a little scarier.

But, really, when I'm in a good flirting space, I'm an outrageous flirt, and I really enjoy it, and I almost never mean it to go anywhere. In fact, when I DO want it to go somewhere, I'm often too shy to flirt about it :)

[geekchick]

I think I'm the same way; there are some markers in my own mind as to when I've crossed the line into "with intent", but I don't know that they're obvious to anyone other than myself. I tend to flirt without intent, at least at first, because I'm too nervous to do any such thing when I really do have Intent. ;)

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I think my distinction is usually internal. I enjoy flirting for fun, and almost always start out flirting with someone in that manner. If I have a crush on them and they don't know it yet, sometimes I feel like I have to be overly careful - I try to think more about a specific flirty comment/response before sending it (and yes, most of my flirting is confined to electronic media - I'm not as confident at it in person, probably just because I'm not always as quick) and whether or not it is going to go too far. If I already have a Relationship with the person or she is aware of my crush, I usually feel much more free about what I'll say in a flirty situation.

One thing I think is big in my case is that if I start out flirting with someone just for fun (no intent), if such flirting stays very enjoyable and/or I pick up other cues elsewhere that I might really like this person, that will often lead to me falling for/crushing on her. Some crushes I let wax and wane, and will continue to be very flirty at times without intent. If I figure out after I while that a crush isn't fading, think the relationship has potential to go further, and can muster the nerve, I'll confront her.

This is pretty rambly, but I think, for me, it boils down to the fact that it's difficult for anyone but me to know when the switch to intent being on has been thrown. Has any of this made sense? :-)

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

It makes sense to me, and is very close to what I probably would have written. Now I don't have to! ;-)

[macropixi.livejournal.com]

Actually, I never flirt with intent. Unless I am flirting with Shadow. Otherwise, its all play with me. I flirt for fun, not profit.

[winterbadger]

I don't generally flirt *without* intent. It seems too much like (insert name of appropriate genitalia here)-teasing to me, something I don't like and wouldn't do to someone else. On very, very rare occasions I'll flirt with someone just as a joke, but only with someone who obviously never be a partner or (conversely) with a close friend or ex. And always in a very, very mock fashion to make it obvious its not intended to be serious. Most of the time, if I flirt with someone, it's because something about them attracts me, and I want to let them know that. It may end up leading somewhere or not, depending on the people and the circumstances, but I don't flirt without "meaning it," usually.

[geekchick]

Most of the time, if I flirt with someone, it's because something about them attracts me, and I want to let them know that.

Oh, I don't flirt with people who don't attract me in some way either, but I don't know that I'd go so far as to say I always flirt with intent. Sometimes it's just a fun way to get to know someone a bit more, in the "hey, you seem kinda neat, I'd like to find out more about you" way, so that I can make a more informed decision about whether I might start flirting with intent later. =)

[winterbadger]

Yeah, that makes sense; I can see some of what I do falling into that category (even recently). I just have an aversion to the sort of kind of flirting that some people do for their own amusement, without any concern for how it may be taken by the recipient.

[geekchick]

(even recently)

*grin*

I just have an aversion to the sort of kind of flirting that some people do for their own amusement, without any concern for how it may be taken by the recipient.

I can understand that.

Intent

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I'm a flirt. When I was in a monogamous relationship (her need, my concession), I would still flirt, but not with Intent. Sometimes I would flirt with people with whom I would have had intent if I could have, but otherwise not. I will often flirt back with a good flirter, regardless of interest or potential.

In more recent months, the people that I've found myself flirting with have been often with intent, and sometimes with Intent. Our mutual friend, for instance, met me on a night I was flirting with someone with Intent. He noticed that, and it colored our interactions, actually for the better though I don't know if he knows that. For me, the subsequent flirting with our mutual friend was with intent, as part of the "I don't know you well enough to know if I'm attracted to you, but you're bantering with me and this is fun and I want to see where this goes and what attraction emerges."

Note: flirting with Intent was not intended to lead to a romantic relationship, but it has gotten me what I was hoping it would get. Giggle.

Someone that I used to flirt with without intent managed to change that by simply indicating that he'd love to hear from me now that I'm single and dating. This morning he ironed my clothes while I was in the shower.

Outcome: Intent, intent, or non-intent doesn't necessarily play a role in the what-comes-next and how the flirting gets intensified into Something More.

Re: Intent

[geekchick]

as part of the "I don't know you well enough to know if I'm attracted to you, but you're bantering with me and this is fun and I want to see where this goes and what attraction emerges."

*ding* Yes, that. I don't flirt with people if I don't find something about them attractive, but it's often with the intent of trying to find out more about them rather than because I've got something in particular in mind. Not to say I *never* have any intent behind my flirtation, but these days it's increasingly rare that I start up a flirtation with intent; it tends to develop later.

Re: Intent

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Seeble! I think almost every word of your comment can apply to my reasons as well. :-)

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Intent...

I rarely start out with intent... I flirt because, I flirt.

I like banter, I like women, I like to banter with women, banter often involves flirtatious aspects.

That said, intent is never all that hard to discover. Flirtation involves flattery... flattery, to work, requires sincerity, sincere flattery often leads to positive feedback (who doesn't want to hear nice things about themselves).

But intent means that some aspect of the sexual implications of flirting are worth carrying out. I guess the line getws drawn when an implicit offer gets made, because I'm not going to play the coquette, if I make, be it for a kiss, or a weekend in the Poconos, it's legit.

When I get an offer, that's harder, because I don't expect everyone to be that clear in their own minds, and have seen offers made to, "test the waters" and see if there is any interest on the other parties part.

I know when there's intent, and my SO usually does, but otherwise, who can tell. Intent, from the recipient's point of view usually has to do with the perceived intensity of the flirting, not the content, and I tend to be flirt with a decided attention, and focus.

Which has caused trouble when there was no intent.

TK

[geekchick]

I rarely start out with intent... I flirt because, I flirt.

It's become increasingly rare for me to start out with intent, for various reasons. Generally, I flirt because it's a fun way to get to know someone better (not to mention just plain old fun if one has a willing partner with some amount of talent).

I guess the line getws drawn when an implicit offer gets made, because I'm not going to play the coquette, if I make, be it for a kiss, or a weekend in the Poconos, it's legit.

I think that some amount of innuendo and lighthearted teasing can fall into the "this is fun" camp, although there's a point that's somewhat hard to define where it starts feeling somewhat different. For me, when it starts feeling less like general banter and more like it's specifically directed at the flirting partner, that's about the point I start wondering if it's moved from "fun diversion" to "intent". Probably makes little sense to anyone not me, I don't know that I explained that well, if at all. It's one of those nebulous "I know it when I see it" sort of things.

Intent, from the recipient's point of view usually has to do with the perceived intensity of the flirting, not the content, and I tend to be flirt with a decided attention, and focus.

I think I'd agree that perceived intensity has some affect, probably for me that's more true than the content in most cases. The more intense and sustained a flirtation, the more likely I am to think "hm, this might be turning into intent" (both on my part and on others, although the latter requires rather a lot more to kick-start that line of thought than it does to make me wonder if I'm headed for intent).

I'm probably not awake enough to comment on this right now, but why let that stop me...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Flirtation doesn't necessarily imply intent. Sometimes it's just something light-hearted and fun with people you like, I think - so I guess I do enjoy it for its own sake. It's always fun.

But if I'm not flirting with intent, I may try to shift the conversation to gain a little more distance now and then when I think there's a chance that intent might otherwise be inferred.

I'll flirt with people if they're some combination of good company, fascinating/attractive (this is a little more vague than it sounds here, but I can't think of more appropriate words right now...) and fun to talk to. A lot of the time it's almost ritual, something that happens every time I see people I only meet rarely - even if they're not people I know well, in some cases, and not always with intent.

Re: I'm probably not awake enough to comment on this right now, but why let that stop me...

[geekchick]

I'll flirt with people if they're some combination of good company, fascinating/attractive (this is a little more vague than it sounds here, but I can't think of more appropriate words right now...) and fun to talk to.

Those are pretty much my criteria as well; I don't usually start out with intent, because if I do really hope that it might go somewhere, I'm too tongue-tied and nervous to do anything about it. It's fun, especially so if one has an amenable partner who also enjoys flirting as a fun activity in its own right. This is not to say it never turns into "with intent", obviously, but I think normally for me it's "hey, I think you're kinda interesting" rather than anything much more serious.

[geekchick]

I've addressed most of this in other comments, but here are my own answers anyway.

I don't tend to start flirting with someone with intent these days. For me, intent implies that I actively want to develop a physical and/or romantic relationship with someone. I tend more often to flirt for the sake of flirting, because it can be a fun way to get to know someone better. This is not to say that just because I don't usually start out with intent, I don't ever develop it; far from it, although it's not guaranteed. The thing that's hard for me to catch sometimes is when I've crossed over into "intent" territory from "this is fun". I think that the more sustained the flirtation is, the more likely I am to start thinking about whether I've developed intent. (I'm very bad at discerning it on the part of other people; heck, I'm bad at figuring out when someone's flirting with me unless they beat me with the clue bat.)

I flirt with people that attract me in some way, usually because I think they're likely to be a good conversationalist (most of my flirting these days is done online). I also find it a lot easier to flirt with men than women, probably just lack of experience reading women in this context. If I flirt with someone, there's something about them that I find appealing, although it may or may not lead to anything more.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

We talked about this elsewhere... but for me, the boundary between flirting and flirting-with-intent is when there seems to be some kind of spark there. Flirting is just for fun with lots of different people... I don't ever start out with intent, because I don't think that others will be attracted to me in return.

Over time, with some people, there's more energy, maybe a spark develops... maybe then circumstances are right for the spark to kindle into something relationship-wise, or maybe not then.

Then there's practical issues... if there's no way to reasonably make plans (say, in a budding LDR, or one person is monogamous and attached) then intent devolves to flirting-with-interest.

[geekchick]

Then there's practical issues... if there's no way to reasonably make plans [...] then intent devolves to flirting-with-interest.

So, for you there's flirting, "flirting with interest" and "flirting with intent"? I think that makes some sense, and definitely it maps reasonably well to some of my past flirtations.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

"Interest" being analogous to indefinitely-postponed potential intent, for me.

[geekchick]

Hm. I don't think that quite maps to how I define "with interest", but good to know your definition. =)

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

For me, flirting with intent means that I am in fact interested and if something should happen, great - but I admit I don't generally expect much as a result of flirting. Oddly enough this means I get blindsided from time to time.

[anotheranon.livejournal.com]

Just catching up....

Good question. I don't usually flirt because it frankly doesn't occur to me to do so - I don't think I'm all that good at it, and though one of my friends advises me that flirting is the fine art of complimenting with flowery language, I just worry that more will be read into it than there is, and the object of my flirting will either want to get hot and heavy or run away screaming ;)

There are exceptions though - I'll flirt online if someone else starts it first, and if it's playful enough that I don't think they're going to get infatuated. I'm very good at not having or developing any intent, and I don't think any of the people I flirt with have any either - or if they do, I don't know about it! :P

Should that change, I'll have to reevaluate and plot another solution </borg>